Empty Land to Living Forest: Aviram on Building Sadhana with Love

Details

• Interviewee: Aviram
• Role: Founder
• Community: Sadhana Forest
• Date: 2026-01-14
• Language: en

Summary

Viram shares his journey of establishing Sadna Forest in Auroville, South India, which began in December 2003. Drawn by the idea of creating a space for personal growth, he and his family transformed an empty land into a thriving community that attracts volunteers from around the globe. The evolution of Sadna Forest reflects a strong ethos of inclusivity and holistic care, emphasizing sustainability and collaboration over competition. Viram discusses his personal growth in leadership and the importance of empathy in maintaining the community's values.

He highlights various practices that promote a sense of belonging and community, including regular sharing circles, non-competitive activities, and a gift economy approach. The interview touches upon the challenges of managing differences but emphasizes the primary value of understanding each other through a shared commitment to care and mutual support. Viram expresses deep appreciation for the community that surrounds him, emphasizing the love and support that form the foundation of Sadna Forest.

Key quotes

I think that the founders are walking the talk. You know, this place is vegan, but I'm also vegan... I think they saw a level of integrity in what we're doing, because we actually studied it for ourselves.

It's a huge amount of love for people. I really love people and really care for people deeply... you need this [love] in order to hold a space like this.

Mutual agreement for me can be found only when there is your feeling of genuine care if I genuinely care for you, there is a chance that we will reach an understanding.

I realized that actually I'm, I don't have the confidence to feel the time offering something worthwhile... I'm not asking for something that I don't deserve, and that was a huge learning for me.

The only thing that they really need to refrain from like absolutely is the substances and any form of sexual abuse or harassment. That is totally not negotiable.

Transcript

**[Speaker 1]:** So let's start with your name, and where are we sitting right now?
**[Viram]:** I'm a Viram who was sitting at Sadna forest in Orville, south India.
**[Speaker 1]:** And um, up, how many years are you since we started the closet till we go?
**[Viram]:** Um, in 21 years, we started 19 December 2003.
**[Speaker 1]:** How did you find yourself?
**[Viram]:** I moved to Orwell in 2002. And then a little bit more in the center of Oregon. Eventually, Liam, my wife, you ate the 9, my wife, yurite and I moved here to an empty land that we called Sadma forest and and started living here with our daughter, who was 2 years old, the photome of someone and then uh.
**[Viram]:** Yeah, I'm slowly people not so slowly. Actually quite fast. People started coming and volunteering with us.
**[Viram]:** And then I devote into a sort of a volunteer community. And now we have a it sudden forest centers around the world, 5 in India, one in Kenya, 1 in 8 PM 1 in, I mean, it
**[Speaker 1]:** Can you add up? It's a vision or plan or an intention? Will you go to no like, why does people come from
**[Viram]:** I don't really know. I think it was the excitement of pioneering. You know, they heard that somebody's doing something new and something new zole is exciting.
**[Viram]:** So they came to see what we're doing, and then they asked, can we stay? And we didn't have a place to stay. So you know, we took 4 sticks and put a tarp on top and made for them makeshift sort of tense and Or just hang hammer between 2 sticks.
**[Viram]:** There were no trees here and um, and the yep, and then, uh, yeah, it evolved slowly. We understood that people really want to be here there was a woman from Switzerland here, Katerina, who wrote this point when she left and in the poem, she said, may there be many more forests? And to grow people and that was a, that was about a few months after we started here in 2004.
**[Viram]:** And um, it was a very strong organization for us. When we read it that we're not the only ones growing here, it's a place for growth for other people as well, so um that was sort of one stage of development. Okay, it's about growth.
**[Viram]:** And then in 2008, came here, a Prof. from the US, as Steve woodmanon said, you know, this is not a project, this is a model you have to replicate those in other places. That's the first time I've ever thought about doing another sad memorist I am cause I never visited any communities.
**[Viram]:** You know, I was not in that line at all so? And then um, and in 2010, we started 7 1st 18 after the earthquake, the 2 town in 10 earthquake. And then um, yeah, and then we started starting for Kenya in 2014 and then started more sad in the forest in India, then Namibia.
**[Speaker 1]:** And when you said, can you really pinpoint different stages? You on the land that he said, like, okay, now I've learned something new. No, I'm always visiting, so you've got updated
**[Viram]:** On on the on the restoration level on the land restoration level
**[Speaker 1]:** I think that in your boards do what you're doing.
**[Viram]:** Yeah, so I told you that I think realizing that this is the first becoming a place for personal growth was a huge realization for me, I think I didn't understand it before and also the fact that he's a murderer. It could be a mother and not just a quote in terms of the work on the land I think the main thing that I realized was the importance of water conservation. I thought that it's all about tree planting, and I didn't understand that these trees would never grow if we don't do water conservation, so if we don't dig, you know, buns and swales and bugabyons and Earth dams and check dams, and whatever is needed in order to slow spread and sink the water into the landscape.
**[Viram]:** So yeah, that was a man.
**[Speaker 1]:** And when you say when you realize this is a place for go with some development, what do you think he's needed to hold a space like that also fall from the stage? And also, what do you think that you have in you? It allows that
**[Viram]:** And I think that you asked before what were attracted people here and and I think one of the things that attracted people here is the fact that the founders are walking the talk. You know, this place is vegan, but I'm also vegan, it's not that I'm you know, or or we live. In hut, so we all live in hut, you know it it, it's We, II think they saw a level of integrity in what we're doing, because we actually studied it for ourselves.
**[Viram]:** We didn't start it for them. So we just live the way we want to live then, and I think that's a lot of also what's needed to create something that has some some integrity and also some integravity, like in the sense that we're vegan, and we We are the natural learning with our children, our children didn't go to school. And we very strongly believe in collaboration and not in competition, and we don't even allow competitive games here like Chess or war games or aggressive games or believe in gift economy.
**[Viram]:** So everything that we do for people that come from the outside is free like we just had a festival. I could be with 1000 people and they didn't pay for anything, not for the food, not for and we tried to do this reading pocket and we have the tea hat every day from 4 to 530 and people can come and have tea and laduce Vegan tea with organic coconut milk and lettuce. And it's free for everybody.
**[Viram]:** We're trying to do something that has some kind of way wholesomeness, and I think people feel it close the treaty, maybe for some, it's not what I want, but
**[Speaker 1]:** And what do you think you'd have? What do you think you needed to develop within yourself to be able to hold a place like this off and go?
**[Viram]:** It's a huge amount of love for people. I really love people and really care for people deeply and and I can meet someone and you know, after half an hour, I feel a huge commitment to their well-being to their, I'm willing to go a long way to support them. And I think in order to hold a space like this, you need this.
**[Viram]:** Because otherwise you resort to authority, you know, it's a result to laugh. I'll tell you what to do what we're trying to create. You're not just me, but everybody that lives here is a hierarchy of care, the more you're here, the more you care for people and that's what gives you the the authority that the fact that you're on You know, in the festival, okay, the first night I slept like 3 hours a night for like 4 days before the festival, I hardly could walk on my feet.
**[Viram]:** I walked here, according to bed, literally, 2 minutes later, somebody woke me up as a woman, a young woman that doesn't feel well, she's not. Digesting, well, her food, can you go and talk to her? So I went to her and she said?
**[Viram]:** 18 9th, it's not good for me. I and then she started talking about her family and traumas. And then I said until 2 o'clock in the night and listen to her and told they're okay, let's continue tomorrow and after the festival.
**[Viram]:** Stay here with us, we'll see you know, connecting with the therapies that can help you win. She's here now and uh, you know, this is you can't teach somebody to do this. Do you know they have to really want to do this and do it with love.
**[Viram]:** Not do it or why did you wake me up, I'm so tired, I don't want to hear about your peanuts or whatever it is you know, but to have compassion, I feel it's developing me. It's not perfect in any way, but it It's all the time developing, yeah.
**[Speaker 1]:** No, did you feel you had look at it? The view met places in you that because okay, I really need to go. Yeah, succeed doing what I want to do.
**[Viram]:** Yeah, many places.
**[Speaker 1]:** I wonder like what were these lessons for where were these bases that you felt stuck in? How could you it's, how did you go from there?
**[Viram]:** You know, there was an American man, very arrogant man that came here like maybe 12 or 13 years ago and he said, you know you're doing wonderful work, but you have one problem you have a mentality of poverty. And I was so angry, I felt so p***** off that he told me both and so what an arrogant, you know b******, and I And then I thought about it more. And then I realized that actually I'm, I don't have the the confidence to feel the time offering something worthwhile.
**[Viram]:** You know, I'm, I'm all the time feeling that what I'm doing is it's okay, but it's not good enough, it's not, you know, I don't have the Them encouraged to come to a donor and say you have a chance here to donate to something beautiful. We're doing something beautiful, something meaningful and if you want to support or support us. I want to come in like with you know, with the begging ball and and could you please how we need help you know, and I realized that this man was A spot on you know and um, and now I could feel that yeah, we're doing something good.
**[Viram]:** It can be improved a lot. But we're doing something good and it's worth supporting uh, and whoever wants to support it. It's fine and Weber doesn't want to support it.
**[Viram]:** It's also find butt I don't need to feel the time I'm asking for something that I don't deserve, and then that was a huge learning for me. Another piece of learning that was very huge for me. Was I'm a perfectionist song you Friday?
**[Viram]:** See something you know, I as always. We see, what's the problem on this is, you know, this is a bit peeling and why is it not glued, you know, and when I interact with people With our team here, I used to all time, say you know this could be done better in a very positive nonviolent way, yeah, not in an aggressive. But this could be done better.
**[Viram]:** This could be done better and um, people started giving me feedback and saying, hmm, you know you're always saying what can be done better. And we are learning a lot from you and we are feeling amazing about that, but you never say, what is already okay, why can't you say that this is already okay?
**[Viram]:** And it can also be done better but you're always.
**[Viram]:** I'm not saying that and I took it very much too hard and ISO now, every interaction with anyone, even if the feedback is very, very strong. I always start with the positive stuff and always very trying to be very aware of where I am who I am emotionally. If I'm not angry or fun rest player and see fine and 2I don't know if you read this book house of the Lord of Samuel champ, uh, it's uh, so.
**[Viram]:** He said, before you check your patient, take your own blood pressure. So that's what I'm, that's what I'm doing. I'm always checking how I feel and seeing that I'm right for the interaction.
**[Viram]:** And if I'm not right for the invention, I don't enter the intactual night say, do the person, okay, I'll meet you later. Yeah, meet someone else. So it really developed my awareness this feedback
**[Speaker 1]:** You talked a little bit earlier about the forces of finding Nick evens as a group, it was a community. And I feel was really interesting for people is the fact. Sometimes you can forget that the easiest part is to start to buy a piece of plan, you sit somewhere and these things they like the guy there, the money, the they move somewhere that immigrate to a different country.
**[Speaker 1]:** And then he got someone and it's really tragic. The statistics is between 3 months to 9 months that group would not want to see each other's faces anymore. That's the vast majority of community's intentional community, I'm, you know, he's sitting here for a few years already.
**[Speaker 1]:** I want to speak a little bit about this process of finding it. Mutual agreements 2 to hold the space together.
**[Viram]:** A mutual agreement for me can be found only when there is your feeling of genuine care if I genuinely care for you, there is a chance that we will reach an understanding which is much bigger than if you feel that I'm just using you as free labor volunteer or whatever it is. If you feel included. If you feel home.
**[Viram]:** And I think this is the basis of it all, the exact mechanism how to find the agreement are not very good in these community processes. And I never did facilitation and this, I really love and care for people, the ones who feel it, I can reach agreement with them and the ones that don't. Feel it They don't stay here long.
**[Viram]:** You know, and there are ones that don't think it And it's okay. It's totally okay. But and the people that are um, the leaders of this place, all people that have a very large capacity to for empathy, you know, for compassion, we take care of cows in the goshalame, which we don't milk?
**[Viram]:** And we don't eat and to do that, with all your heart day in and Day Out, just had a bull. That was a young bull that was so sick. And we spend days and nights with him, you know, massaging him and this and things blow these on his feet again, so you know, it's it's and and those that have this capacity can stay here and then II remember there was a couple here that was in the sort of the leadership of the place and uh, the family came With 3 or 4 kids and became very late in there, like at 9 o'clock or 9:30 in the night, and we didn't know that they're coming.
**[Viram]:** So there were no mosquito nets hung, there's no bets for them and no bedding and nothing and the couple that was taking care of and they told them okay. I just wait sitting the main height. They were so tired.
**[Viram]:** You know, we wake up at 5:30 in the morning, this was 9 plus they started arranging the tempting and hanging the mosquito, me and tumbling it so nicely and this and and put the family to sleep I made some food for them and for the kids and put them to sleep. The next day I met this, uh, family and they told him they told me this is a great place. And I said, how do you know just when did you arrive?
**[Viram]:** We arrived last night and so you know, it's a great place. They said we saw the your people. They had tears of tiredness in their eyes, but they took care of us so well and we know that the place still can care like this for people and people that are It's not very cooperative because we came.
**[Viram]:** It's late at night, although you asked us to come before sunset, it's a great place. And you know, for me it was beautiful to see that it, it's something that the the thing here ISIS embodying, and we have to be very sensitive in terms of agreements, because we have people from many countries. You know, we have a lot of people from from India from Europe, from the US from Southeast Asia from a, it leans from many places we need to to find the common ground to interact in a way that could be.
**[Viram]:** You know, safe then?
**[Speaker 1]:** How do you do that?
**[Viram]:** Um, so we have a set of sort of guidelines that try to keep the place safe like narco, no drugs. No smoking. We tried that the food would be very calm There's no chili in the food here.
**[Viram]:** So we create an environment, we spend a lot of time together, so there's a lot of timefourinteraction and 2 try to understand each other. And we have a sharing circle every Tuesday, actually, in today's today could there be a sharing cycle in the evening where people can speak about whatever they feel? And there's also community forum.
**[Viram]:** I don't know, I think it's also today in the afternoon, Luke announced it now that people can come with all there Challenges or compliments or whatever they want to come with and express it, and we take 24 hours to think about it. And then we come back to them with an answer. I don't know.
**[Viram]:** I've never been in Tamara. But we we, there's one of us. One of the leadership team is meeting with them and um and listening to all the whatever it is and then jaymar, can I?
**[Viram]:** So the community forum, people are and yeah, sharing, and then we don't answer immediately because we need time to think about it So we meet after the forum and we discussed everything that they've brought up and we come back the next day with the with the answer. Personally to them, you've asked this, this is it would be, it's a great idea. We're going to do it We can't do it because of this.
**[Viram]:** We have tried this 20 times before it doesn't work whatever it is? And um, yeah, so everybody feels at the end and that Tuesday sharing secret is very important for the emotional stuff. Many people have in this forum expressed for their first time in their life that they were raped that they remember things that happened to them in different situations.
**[Viram]:** It was a very strong healing experience, but we don't respond to what the people say we just say at the end of the when they speak. We just say thank you. And we go to the next person, so there's no document in there's no, you have to do that.
**[Viram]:** Not so bad. You know, there's nothing of this just deep listenings and you don't have to share so you can just listen and um, yeah, we have every Wednesday we have the non talent show. So people can come and perform whatever they want.
**[Viram]:** So they don't need to be turned at all many people, so many people some here for the first time, dance for the first time, like as a performance, and you know read their poem for the first time. And got a lot of good positive feedback and and so that's very healing. In many ways and yeah, we have every week on Monday evening, we have a core value talk, where one of our team talks about 1 of the core venues.
**[Viram]:** So it could be collaboration, non-competition, to be veganism could be gift economy or It's unschooling natural learning or different things, and it's a conversation which people can also ask questions many mechanisms, and we have a person that is in charge of the well-being of the short-term volunteers. So she's the address for everything that, but there's somebody up. Mm, you need to see, so everybody knows phone number knows where hat is and can come to her day and night and say oh this is this.
**[Viram]:** Difficult for me. Yeah, let this lady you ate the peanuts or somebody else feeling sad, missing their parents missing their boyfriend. Whatever it is bitten by some things.
**[Viram]:** They have an address 24 hours a day. And if there is a need. I also get involved and my wife, your week gets involved?
**[Viram]:** And if there's a need, then my doctor gets involved, and either we bring somebody here, or we take them to hospital or
**[Speaker 1]:** What do you feel French from all the people who came through here? What do you feel that someone needs to live behind or blow out from in order to get that along very well in here?
**[Viram]:** Not much, not much because II think they, the the community here is very accepting is very very acceptable. The only thing that they really need to refrain from like absolutely is the substances and any form of sexual abuse for harassment. The death death is it's totally not negotiable and and they cancel this year, but the rest any other behavior almost We can sort of contain, to an extent.
**[Viram]:** We had people here with major depression people here, with with psychosis, people that hear sounds and respond to things that you can't see we had people of all you know, people, we just had uhmm, a volunteer on a wheelchair, you know, we have blind volunteers. We had a lady volunteering with up. A neological device that gives impulses to a brain we accept really everyone everyone.
**[Viram]:** Um, yeah, if people are very lazy, it's a problem. So we try to understand what is the reason why they're not coming to sever to set to the surface service, if they it's laziness, then we tell them, maybe each You know, it's a better time for you to be in a guest house somewhere and then when you feel more energetic and more ready to go, then you can come back here and many times they do that. They just go to rest for a few days, they didn't realize maybe that they're tired and sometimes they say, do you know I I'm not in a stage where I can give somebody.
**[Viram]:** Cause I need myself, I need myself. I hope I need support. I need rest and then we tell them, okay, great, go do that and come back and sometimes we decide to even support them because we feel that there is no else no place else for them to go that also happens.
**[Viram]:** We have some people that you can't ask them to go, because if they go, they wouldn't go back to addictions, they will eat. They will kill themselves. They would, you know, they're not they cannot go.
**[Viram]:** So we, you know, we hold them and and try to support them in the best way possible so that they can stay here and that also happens and even at this moment it happens.
**[Speaker 1]:** What comes to your minds when you think about? You know, relationship? But it's the mother she opened up.
**[Viram]:** Huge feeling of support. It's being supported by them. So many dreams and so many intuitions that came from, you know, I'm going to the samadhin conditionary, and sitting there and then walking out whenever I walk out of somebody, I have a new realization, a new, something, something that is solved.
**[Viram]:** For me, it's just amazing when I sit there nothing happens, I sit there and I don't even know even I don't even know how long I expect that when I look out and you can't open your from there. So you don't know how long it passed if you've been there 10 minutes or 3 hours, and then When I when I go out, I always feel okay. Now I know why I came here to know I know what I came to solve and it's um, yeah, huge inspiration and huge connection.
**[Viram]:** And yeah, we told the turmoil that you know I'm going to an August going to this is the the strong constant, you know that, can you know ground me and And hold me here and tell me that this is my place. Despite the whatever happens, this is my place and the mother even and even said it in another way she's that I think she was asked something like, what will happen with Orville, if if the wrong people come here and she said, Orville, will. Succeed, despite all events, you know and so I feel okay.
**[Viram]:** Maybe I'm the wrong person but you know Oracle was to keep despite me, so it's okay for me. You know how to stay, because yeah, he said that it's okay for the wrong people
**[Speaker 1]:** And what comes to mind for your way? What do you think about the world organs?
**[Viram]:** About the
**[Speaker 1]:** About over.
**[Viram]:** Orbit for me, is the only place in the world where I could live. It's the only place that I really feel home. I've never felt really at home before orbit, I didn't and and yeah, and I feel very much at home hearing it, it's a place to take me a huge amount of freedom to be myself.
**[Viram]:** To evolve and 2 and without judgment, and without it, um, yeah, you know, I got shield trip over this piece of land and I was allowed to do my own thing. You know and and that's that could never happen anywhere. I don't think
**[Speaker 1]:** You know what comes to your mind when you think about? It's the coming year, 2025.
**[Viram]:** Come in, I'm very hopeful. 12 20 25 20 20 24 was a difficult year for me. Uh and and I really hope that 2025 would be much better and it already started better and um, yeah, I'm learning to accept.
**[Viram]:** I'm learning to accept what is coming. And um, I think I'll need it a lot. In 2025.
**[Viram]:** It's okay, I'm surrounded by people who love me and I love them, and that's giving me AU tomorrow, a real demand 5, both inside my family and my 2 daughters and my wife and inside in the forest, I feel so loved so appreciated, so Supported, and that's more than I ever felt.
**[Viram]:** Yeah, I don't know if you noticed, but when we were sitting for the picture, there was a piece of the Banyan that was kickling me in the eye here and one of our volunteers, he looked at me and he said, do you want me to? Trim it, he noticed it was very thin.
**[Viram]:** It must have looked really well to see it. And if you wanted to trim it or don't disturbane. I know that TV cares for me, you know and he's not somebody very close to me, but I can feel the camp Good morning and that's healing for me.
**[Speaker 1]:** Thank you.
**[Viram]:** It was an amazing conversation. I enjoy being a new yor and then photos.